『漫游』酷论坛>『海外生活』>谈谈你对宗教的看法
jingwen@2004-02-22 08:42
first, there is nothing so wrong or say false to another person's opinion about this kind of issue. Since you believe in God, and I don't, so our understanding toward soul is quite different neither. Read my previous poster, I revised it. better explained my understanding.
Exodus@2004-02-22 08:44
Maybe.
Did I ever say I believe in God?
I am an Absolute atheist. I just like discussing religious issues
jingwen@2004-02-22 08:46
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最初由 Exodus 发布
Surely either means you believe in the an immaterial and immortal entity?
I said before, soul is an abstract objective, which means it's immaterial. But it's never alive, no need to discuss whether it is immortal or not.
jingwen@2004-02-22 08:47
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最初由 Exodus 发布
Maybe.
Did I ever say I believe in God?
I am an Absolute atheist. I just like discussing religious issues
Ok, never mind. I like anything concerns with religious, like literature, art, music.
Exodus@2004-02-22 08:50
Hmm, you obviously havn't read my posts before:
In my life, I've never said "God does not exist," but, rather, "I have yet to encounter a valid reason for believing the existence of God".
Why?
The Christian religion is premised upon two things: (1) the testimony of the Bible; (2) the historicity of Jesus.
1. The Bible contains countless errors and many documents that are known to have been forged (e.g., II Peter). It is not to be trusted. If the Bible is actually the word of a deity, then we can assume it would be infallible. It would have "the universality of the law of gravitation and the perfection of the arithmetical table" (Joseph Lewis). The Bible is far from perfect and thus lends itself to a multitude of interpretations. A perfect work would never lead anyone to this conclusion; an arithmetical table, for example, has only one interpretation.
I challenge a Christian to reconcile the two genealogies of Jesus with each other. I challenge a Christian to reconcile the genealogy of Matthew with itself (count the generations: there are not fourteen plus fourteen plus fourteen generations listed in Matthew -- although Matthew says that there are). I challenge a Christian to reconcile either genealogy with the Old Testament.
2. The earliest descriptions we have of Jesus Christ, those of St. Paul, give no details about where he lived, when he lived, or what he did. The only say that he lived sometime in the past, somewhere in the Palestine area, and that he died. This early testimony does not differ at all from the various myths that were floating around in those days -- myths that all Christians discount as fable.
It was only in about 90 C.E. that alleged details about Jesus' life begin to materialize and be circulated, in the form of Gospel stories. These details contradict one another, from Gospel to Gospel, because each Gospel was developed in a separate region and a separate sect. Mark was used to create Matthew and Luke, and each of the latter is clearly an improvement -- a correction, if you will -- of Mark. The Jesus character gets grander and more all-powerful with each succeeding Gospel. (For example, in Mark, Jesus could not heal certain people because of their unbelief, and had to use salves and other physical means. These are "corrected" in the later gospels, as it was unthinkable, at this later time, that Jesus would have such limitations.) John is so far out in left field that it barely squeaked by the ratification process several centuries later. (Yes. The canon of the Bible is the result of a vote: the books that were included in the Bible won, and the books that are not in the Bible lost.)
Only after there had been plenty of time for the Gospel fables to mature do we find references to specific details of Jesus' life (such as that he allegedly lived during the time of Pontius Pilate).
Thus, for me to even believe that a man named Jesus even lived during these times is a stretch. For me to accept the Gospel accounts at face value would compromise my sense of truthfulness. In other words, for me to say that these accounts are trustworthy in any sense would be for me to tell a lie. I have similar doubts about whether Mohammed and Moses ever existed. In other words, I can explain the existence of Christianity without there needing to have been a real Jesus, just as I can explain the existence of Judaism without there having been a Moses, just as I can explain the existence of Islam without needing to resort to a historical figure named Mohammed
Exodus@2004-02-22 08:51
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最初由 jingwen 发布
I said before, soul is an abstract objective, which means it's immaterial. But it's never alive, no need to discuss whether it is immortal or not.
Whats the other option other than being alive?
jingwen@2004-02-22 08:54
I love western classical art and music, which often connect with religious. They are elegant. I'm in the highest class of choir in my school, which called chorale. I sing about God, church choir songs, but that's just somthing concerns the appreciation of art.
jingwen@2004-02-22 08:56
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最初由 Exodus 发布
Whats the other option other than being alive?
not everything in this world is alive, huh?
Exodus@2004-02-22 08:59
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最初由 jingwen 发布
I love western classical art and music, which often connect with religious. They are elegant. I'm in the highest class of choir, which called chorale. I sing about God, church choir songs, but that's just somthing concerns the appreciation of art.
I happen to be in my school's choir too.
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not everything in this world is alive, huh?
I am aware of that fact.
jingwen@2004-02-22 09:05
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最初由 Exodus 发布
I happen to be in my school's choir too.
What are you, soprano, alto, bass, tenor? It depends on whether you are a girl or boy.
Exodus@2004-02-22 09:09
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最初由 jingwen 发布
What are you, soprano, alto, bass, tenor? It depends on whether you are a girl or boy.
Boy, Tenor.
Chapel Choir and Ochestra.
Symphonic Wind Band <- I play the flute
jingwen@2004-02-22 09:15
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最初由 Exodus 发布
First of all, religion is not a tool.
If you read History textbook, you will definitely find the words like religion is a tool of government to control its people, and I think it's somehow true, if you look in history, not just believe in textbook.
Exodus@2004-02-22 09:19
引用
最初由 jingwen 发布
If you read History textbook, you will definitely find the words like religion is a tool of government to contral its people, and I think it's somehow true, if you look in history, not just believe in textbook.
I have a History A-Level.
I hate to argue this point further as its already 1o'clock and I gotta sleep.
Check this post tomorrow to see my response.
jingwen@2004-02-22 09:26
we're in different time zone, i gotta to have my supper too.
Exodus@2004-02-22 10:29
Ahh awakeee
Oh which side was I on...lemme switch..
Commencing Argument.
Throughout the ages, greedy men have prostituted religion for their own selfish needs. They have used religion as a double-edged tool to satisfy the people's hunger for deliverance, and at the same time to amass power and control over them. Emperors, tyrants, dictators, Kings, community leaders and even a few Popes in history, regarded it as an effective instrument to subdue their people.
The purpose of any religion, be it God-sent, Man-made or culturally derived, is to provide its followers with a daily guidance on how to live peacefully with oneself and with one another. These instructions differ from one religion to another but all have equally pure intentions. Monotheistic religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam portrays the vision of one God and that all our actions in life will be used to decide whether we go to heaven or purgatory on judgement day. In Hinduism, God has many representations and man undergoes reincarnation upon death. Buddhism expounds that every man can ultimately achieve the state of Enlightenment, through cultivation of the mind and by practicing moderate values found in the Middle Path.
All religion requires a certain degree of faith among its followers to sustain its existence. It is obvious that there is still no convincing scientific proof that can explain the workings of any religion. Thus followers are compelled to a certain degree to have complete faith and belief in their religion, and to follow its tenets or teachings.
Although faith is the pillaring strength of most religion, unscrupulous leaders see it as a weakness that can be exploited for their own advantage. They rush to the forefront to be associated with religion and declare themselves to be its defenders. Through this crafty act of self-appointment, followers are hoodwinked into believing in their leaders' proclaimed sincerity; and thus start to develop faith in them, just like they have total faith in their religion.
These leaders know that once they have garnered their people's trust and faith, they would have achieved their ultimate goal of total control. From then on, they can freely create policies to govern their people, which most of the time favour the rulers and ensure their continuous political survival.
These are the leaders who also know that they need to generate a regular concoction of crisis amongst the people to justify their own continuous existence. Contrary to popular belief, crisis can actually help the government to maintain its power. It is through resolving these self-invented situations, that leaders can be seen to be doing their work, and thus gain the people's confidence and support.
Throughout history, leaders and revolutionists have used this tactic to gain and maintain power. Most of the time, it ends with devastating results and the loss of many innocent lives. In 1947, when India achieved Independence from the British, they had to create a separate country called West and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) due to the threat of civil war by Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who was then the unofficial leader of the Indian Muslims.
Immediately after the declaration of Independence, there was a massive migration of people across the newly designated borders. Millions of Muslims travelled northwest and northeast into these new countries, and the non-Muslims, travelled southward into India. This chaotic period was marked by religious violence, which left an estimated 2 million people dead.
The Independence was supposed to be a joyous and peaceful occasion for the people, who could at last rule their own country. But radical political figures had misused their religion to gain control of a separate country for themselves. Once ignited, the spark of religious violence spreads very fast and it ended with a conflict, which continues until today.
In Malaysia, the Barisan Nasional Government is starting to realize that racial issues are no longer viable as a crisis stoking mechanism. Through the advent of globalisation and the Internet, various cultures all around the world, including Malaysia, are starting to assimilate each other's values. Malaysians are beginning to consider themselves as citizens of the world, and no longer view themselves as a particular ethnic race. After all, there is only one race in the world, and that is the HUMAN RACE.
For that reason, the Government is turning its sights to religion as the next powerful tool to control its people. In a land where most of its population are obsessed with symbolism and idolism, religion is a very powerful tool to ignite a crisis between the various groups of people in the country.
Thus we see our self-righteous leaders in various States scrambling for the honour to become holier than the leader of the next State. The Chief Minister of Perlis has extended the school hours to introduce more religious and morality subjects. In Ipoh, the authorities have been issuing summons to innocent courting couples in parks, whose only crime was to show their love for each other. And in Selangor, the Chief Minister himself is patrolling the town to round up prostitutes.
Who are the victims in this entire fracas?
It is obvious that the two main casualties are RELIGION and THE REST OF US.
People will begin to view religion other than theirs as hostile and uncompromising, and thus rendering it a bad name. Animosity will grow among followers of different religion and the crisis, which has been anticipated eagerly by the Government, will appear as a result.
Religion and morality should remain as the personal responsibility of an individual. The Government should not dictate how a person prays or practise his or her religion. A Government's duty is just to administer the country to ensure a peaceful and harmonious atmosphere throughout. Only the well-learned religious leaders should handle religious matters.
However, it is sad nowadays to note that there are some dubious religious leaders who also double up as politicians and conversely, there are politicians who also put on religious apparels. These two characters are the ones who will not allow THE REST OF US, to privately discover the beauty of our own religion. These are the two characters who will always highlight the differences between the various religions but diligently attempt to hide their similarities.
The truth is that all religion guides us to become a better person. If we allow self-serving politicians and ambitious religious leaders to come in between our RELIGION and US, we will never learn to appreciate the common values, which is shared by all religion.
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