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[聊天]一个日本人眼中的《圣母在上》

西九条沙罗@2004-04-08 22:08

以下是原文（因为是个英文的BBS，所以是英文写的）

>please, could you tell me the audience for maria sama ga miteru ? the real audience. i'm very interrested.

Hi I'm Japanese and let me answer this question.My English is not good enough, but please be patience. (^^;
The original Maria-sama ga miteru novel is one of the novel series of Cobalt Novels. Covalt Novels is something like "Harlequin Romance for high school girls". Pretty boys, love and stereotypical romance are the keywords of Cobalt. Marimite's uniqueness is the fact that it avoids that mannerism.
Anyway, Marimite novel's intended marketing target is late teen girls. But for some reason, many OTAKU = anime-loving college boys are hooked on this novel.
You know, when I went to Marimite convention, I was surprised that nine-tenths of participants are male. (^^;;
I believe that when the staff of this anime decided to make Marimite into anime, they seriously deliberated upon "To whom should they set target audience?"
They chose OTAKU, because otaku spends much more money than high school girls. But they also desided, "We will never curry otaku's favor like bishoujo anime." They knew otaku were bored with harem anime like Love Hina and lolicon anime like Chobits. Otaku had a thirst for something new. So they made this anime in elegant shoujo style. They think otaku have no immunity to this kind of style, and maybe they are right.
Marimite Manga chose differnt marketing strategy. The publishing company chose early-teen girls.
So, the depth, delicacy, sentiment of the original novel are adventurously arranged into simple, easy-to-follow, funny art and story.
I don't like this arrangement, but I admit the manga is fun to read. (^^
大致内容是有人问到圣母的观众群问题，这个日本人答道：圣母的小说更多是针对OTAKU（即喜欢动漫的大学男生）的，讨论圣母的9/10都是男性(好高啊-_-)；而动画的观众群同样是设定在以OTAKU为目标的，因为OTAKU们大多厌倦了LOVE HINA那种后宫向的和CHOBITS那种萝利向的动画，所以圣母被设定为一部优雅的少女类动画；而圣母的漫画则针对的是10几岁的女孩子们，所以小说的深度、细腻、感情描写等被改编得更加简化、易懂、搞笑
从他的话想到了MARIMITE在中国的观众群，不知大家怎么看？
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cityjim@2004-04-08 22:23

用户被禁言,该主题自动屏蔽!
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OJI@2004-04-08 22:32

竟达到了90%— —日本人啊

目前国内百合众大多数为女性……在这里追看圣母的则以男性居多，也有相当不承认百合或反感GL的……

果然YY才是广义的王道么
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西九条沙罗@2004-04-08 22:33

在一个法国网站http://mariamite.free.fr （MARIMITE好厉害，连法国FANS都有...-_-）找到了更多得资料，是以采访形式进行得，被采访者还是那个日本人，说实话，此日本人得英文是据我所知很地道得一个，所以如果英文好得人看起来应该很舒服，不会有很多“日式英语”其中还说到mariasama ga miteru得第二季大概会在2004秋放出：）
Interview of Touko, real fan of Marimite :

Could you tell me the audience for maria sama ga miteru ? the real audience. i'm very interrested.

Hi I'm Japanese and let me answer this question.

My English is not good enough, but please be patience. ^^

The original Maria-sama ga miteru novel is one of the novel series of Cobalt Novels. Covalt Novels is something like "Harlequin Romance for high school girls". Pretty boys, love and stereotypical romance are the keywords of Cobalt. Marimite's uniqueness is the fact that it avoids that mannerism.
Anyway, Marimite novel's intended marketing target is late teen girls. But for some reason, many OTAKU = anime-loving college boys are hooked on this novel.
You know, when I went to Marimite convention, I was surprised that nine-tenths of participants are male. (^^;;

I believe that when the staff of this anime decided to make Marimite into anime, they seriously deliberated upon "To whom should they set target audience?"
They chose OTAKU, because otaku spends much more money than high school girls. But they also desided, "We will never curry otaku's favor like bishoujo anime." They knew otaku were bored with harem anime like Love Hina and lolicon anime like Chobits. Otaku had a thirst for something new. So they made this anime in elegant shoujo style. They think otaku have no immunity to this kind of style, and maybe they are right.

Marimite Manga chose differnt marketing strategy. The publishing company chose early-teen girls.
So, the depth, delicacy, sentiment of the original novel are adventurously arranged into simple, easy-to-follow, funny art and story.
I don't like this arrangement, but I admit the manga is fun to read. ^^

Does that mean that most of the audience for this anime in Japan is anime fan boys?

Don't think so. Many women are discussing about this anime on the net.
What I asuume is female fans of the original novel are not necessarily female otaku while most male fans of it are otaku. But I'm not sure.

What do anime fan girls or just general population think?

Fan girls are not so different from fan boys and the people in this forum. It's interesting how those who actually go to all girls high school comment on the REALITY of all girls high. We find that Marimite is totally fantasy.(^^;
If you want to know about REAL all girls high, try "Joshi Kousei" by Ooshima Towa. It's a hilarious gag manga. The mangaka really knows something with girls high.

General population doesn't know anything about Marimite. Since the anime is aired in the middle of the night, they don't have chance to watch it.

Most importantly, do you happen to know how many episodes there is going to be for this series for sure?

13. DVD comes with bonus episode "Maria-sama niwa naisho." I think 13 is too short to adapt 8 volumes of the original novel series...
The rumor has it said that the 2nd season will be aired this fall. I can't wait to see Touko!

Why do the japanese DVD carry no subtitles ?

If the anime production company sells subtitled DVD to you, they earn only 2,000 yen. But if they sell to American or French distributor, they earn 1,000,000 yen. That's the way it is ^^

Why does it aired at night on japanese TV (this series contain no violence or nudity, I don't understand this schedule) ?

That's because the staff has set their target to otaku. It's a marketing reason. Daytime broadcasting cost is so high that small anime production company can't take the risk. So they narrow down target to otaku, who watch anime even if it's 1.00 a.m. or 3.00 a.m., and buy DVD even if they've already watched the show. Most anime use the same marketing strategy these days.

Do you have an estimate of how many books were sold ? In a French magazine called Animeland, they taked about 1.5 millions sold.

Summing up 16 volumes, it seems over 2 millon copies were sold. (source: http://anime.nifty.com/title/data/3433.htm)
It's a very great number, but Juuni Kokki / Twelve Kingdoms sold more than 5 millions, GingaEiyuuDensetsu/Legend of Garactic Heroes did 12 millons, and Guin Saga sold 25 millions... they are on a different level.


Which DVD will contain the special episode ?

(Source : http://www.gokigenyou.com/goods.htm)

So far, they've annouced the information of vol.1 only. I read official information again carefully, and found they don't say episode". They say "new video" with cute deformed Yamayuri-kai characters. (Maybe something like
http://www.animate.co.jp/animate/event/fair0331.html ?)


What king of goodies from mari-mite can one find in Japan ?

> http://www.animate.co.jp/animate/goods.asp?newsid=6183&newsid2=2&f=1&
> http://www.animate.co.jp/animate/goods.asp?newsid=6183&newsid2=2&f=6
> http://www.animate.co.jp/animate/event/fair0331.html

The most envious item is rosary...(+o+) The left one is Rosa Chinensis' rosary, the middle is Rosa Foetida's, and the right one is Rosa Gigantea's. Their prices are 8,800 yen / 65 euro/ 80 US$ for each... (T-T)

Are there many doujinshis about these novels in Japan ? Did you like them ? Could you give some references to some of them ?

There are countless doujinshi. Not only doujin manga, but also dojin novels, CD, computer softwares, etc. are available.
Some of them are good, some are bad. Some are comedic parody, and some are romantic fanfics. There are few erotic (hentai) one. Marimite fandom is inclined to avoid hentai. I like UGO's parody the most.


References:
> The doujin card game "Mari-Un-Zero" is the creation of Marimite All Stars, the ensemble of 54 doujin artists. http://mariun.jp/zero/index.html

> Maridon is popular doujin online game. http://sygnas.tv/doujin/maridon/

> One of the most "bizzare" Marimite doujinshi JOJOMite - Rosa's bizzare adventure - Lillian Crusaders http://mituki.puni.to/cg/mteihyousi/mtmain/top82.gif

How is "Maria-sama ga miteru" ranked compared to other anime airing on TV ?

This kind of question is always difficult to answer. It's depend on who ranks them. What I can say is that the dedicated anime fans who gather around 2channel forum ranked Marimite as the best of this season.

In the anime series, episodes 7 and 8 show us Valentine's Day as a great romantic time. What difference is there between Christmas Eve and Valentine's Day ?

Are you talking about general idea ? X'mas Eve is for couples. They spend romatic night while those who are not involved in romance like me get pissed at them. ^^

Valentine's Day is complexed, but in short, it's for women. In usual man-woman relationship, men's role is "giving" and women's role is "accepting" (ex. custom of lady first.) But in Valentine's Day, the role is reversed. Women give and men accept. In Marimite, Sachiko's role is giving (teaching) and Yumi's role is accepting (learning). Yumi wanted to give Sachiko a hand-cooked chocolate which carries her thought in Valentine's Day.

You said Lilian school life was just fantasy. For us, on the contrary, it feels quite realistic. What exactly do you find is fantasy ? Didn't the author and the staff try to show their vision of a European school rather than a Japanese one ?

Women who were ex-students of all girls high say that girls become lazy if there's no boy in their class. Well, this story will be too long to write now, so please read "Joshi Kousei" manga if you want more ^^

And about later question... I hesitate to write it, because it may causes misunderstanding.
I don't think Marimite is rip off at all. Okay? Well then... Some researchers say that Marimite is a revival of old good retro shoujo cultures.

The concept of "esu" is the arrangement of esu novels in 1910-20's (The relationship in esu is not love. Esu is the genre of Marimite.It's often likened to "more than friendship, less than love, but most important" relationship), the concept of pure confined space (ex. Christian
girls school, clean cabin of rocket, sanatorium, etc.) is the favorite concept of shoujo manga in 1970's, and the style of storytelling is good brend of 80's and today's "raito noberu (light novels)".

It is true that shoujo manga of 1970's is strongly affected by old European culture. Marimite intentionaly tries to revive this nostalgic concept. But I think what the auther tries is not showing European style but revival of 70's culture. Because there are many Japanese element (like ginkos) in this show. err.. I can't explain well...


Thank you very much Touko.
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wondy@2004-04-08 22:41

我总感觉是女孩子看这个的多一些…………男的看这个，至少也是有一点OTAKU向的，否则不太可能被其吸引~~~
看一下漫游里有关marimite主题的回帖情况，就基本都明白了…………

TO楼主：百合的势力早已遍布全世界了，记得不久前在某处还见过西班牙的marimite网站~~~（忘了保存起来，遗憾……）
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fifman@2004-04-08 22:45

看一看这一贴吧，很有意思的：

http://popgo.net/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=231294
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西九条沙罗@2004-04-08 22:49

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最初由 fifman 发布
看一看这一贴吧，很有意思的：

http://popgo.net/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=231294

恩，这帖子在花园已经看过了，作者也是比较关注海外得MARIMITE得情势～呵呵
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OJI@2004-04-08 22:53

shoujoai那就是我GL情结的启蒙站啊
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西九条沙罗@2004-04-08 22:53

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最初由 wondy 发布
我总感觉是女孩子看这个的多一些…………男的看这个，至少也是有一点OTAKU向的，否则不太可能被其吸引~~~
看一下漫游里有关marimite主题的回帖情况，就基本都明白了…………

TO楼主：百合的势力早已遍布全世界了，记得不久前在某处还见过西班牙的marimite网站~~~（忘了保存起来，遗憾……）

HEHE，也许是我大惊小怪了，而且MARIMITE里面法语不少，所以有法国FANS为其做网站也是很可能得，可是我能找到得就少了
可是我不大明白你说得OTAKU向是指什么向？
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KJ-YS@2004-04-08 22:58

我算是OTAKU吗……
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西九条沙罗@2004-04-08 23:10

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最初由 西九条沙罗 发布
Why does it aired at night on japanese TV (this series contain no violence or nudity, I don't understand this schedule) ?

That's because the staff has set their target to otaku. It's a marketing reason. Daytime broadcasting cost is so high that small anime production company can't take the risk. So they narrow down target to otaku, who watch anime even if it's 1.00 a.m. or 3.00 a.m., and buy DVD even if they've already watched the show. Most anime use the same marketing strategy these days.


觉得这段比较有趣，我说怎么那么多得动画都放在深夜播放呢，原来是这个原因～呵呵
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winewing@2004-04-08 23:11

俺给同学看，一说到百合之类
马上是皱眉头，不看
可是俺觉得还不错的说啊！！！！！！！！
期待今年秋天！！！！
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SubaruWD@2004-04-08 23:23

对了楼主mm，小说读到第几卷了？你自己的感想呢？:D
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西九条沙罗@2004-04-09 02:15

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最初由 SubaruWD 发布
对了楼主mm，小说读到第几卷了？你自己的感想呢？:D

SIGH~惭愧～一直灭有机会拜读呢～最近都在读些英文得东西，因为要考英文了...SubaruWD读到哪里了？好看么？容易懂么？我听说好像这个作者写得东西非日本人读起来比较费劲呢～
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西九条沙罗@2004-04-09 03:00

不知哪里可以找到翻译得版本？漫游会有吗？好像外国得FANS已经在翻译成英文版了～
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