日本动画制作者心目中军队实力排行……|『动漫主题讨论区』 - 『漫游』酷论坛

th!th@2009-03-19 23:00

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最初由匪兵乙发布

中国人其实对于血统上的异族并不是太关心，所以等汉人反抗消停以后，无论成功与否，异族此时已经不再是异族了。 :D

问题不是汉族而是满族满族把自己当外来民族与汉族隔绝汉族也只好当他们是外来民族

只猪走天涯@2009-03-19 23:13

中国这个地理位置，一旦失去了北方天险，游牧民族一马平川攻下来，只不过是时间问题。别忘了宋朝是怎么灭亡的。最重要一点，北方产战马，满清占领北方后，南明连战马也会给满清封锁了，宋朝当年没骑兵也是这个原因。
最后说说汉奸吴三桂，关宁铁骑是明朝最有战斗力的部队，是唯一能跟满清抗衡的最后军队了。如果吴三桂肯守住关宁防线不反水，至少能拖个几十年，甚至上百年。但你说那个让吴三桂他们放水可是不可能的，因为他们本来就是投降将领，满人一开始对他们就戒备了。让他们放水不就叫他们送死。他们为了讨得满人欢心，肯定杀汉人杀得比满人还卖力。不要说叫他们放水了，让他们别那么卖力都难～～

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th!th@2009-03-19 23:16

南宋也是撑了很久的南方多山水这对游牧民族很不利

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eee904ha@2009-03-19 23:18

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最初由 fallingpowerg4 发布

Well ya'll have to know that the failure of classic mechanics when discribing high-velocity objects LEADS to the birth of S-relativity. In fact yur half right about this. Classic mechanics is a simplified, or said "an approach" to quantum mechanics. Q-mechanics= a lot more accurate but it wouldn't have been there if C-mechanics havent exited in the first place. When a good number of objects apply to a calculation, C-mechanics is required at the sociology level since it's considerably less complicated and provides quicker answers ACCURATE ENOUGH(almost accurate) for the use of it. People calculate cuz they want answers.(some sci-freaks go calculation for calculation though)

one more thing, if you're going astronomy you gotta stick with C-mechanics 4ever. Those things can never be described in a whole with Q-mechanics.

And relativity too...not everything travels that fast, On a Low-velocity Low-mass level relativity can hardly be observed. You either gets C-mechanics in here or just stand yourself up.

well I thought you were talking about armies and social things so...

BTW, Japs were never accurate reguarding military stuff, at least I havent really seen one accurate enough.

Ok, I get the idea now. Q-mechanic is the extension of C-mechanic. But the developing of those subjects requires an unique way of thinking (ie. reasoning, logic), and it is unique to the humans. In fact, the thinking method that leads to the development of physics is unique to the western civilization. You know, there is a reason why modern science was established by them rather then by the Chinese. My point is, if the thinking method of an imaginary civilization is completely different from us, the physics they develop (of course, we can not call it physics anymore) will not be the same as C-mechanic or Q-mechanic.

In other words, the universe is so huge that no one can see its whole picture. As humans, we develop science in order to explain the part of universe we can see.

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th!th@2009-03-19 23:18

我的意思其实是如果明朝退守南方必然会向海外发展就必然会与西欧接触
会比明朝末期更积极地学习科学技术吸收新兴思想这才是我要说的

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rgw87@2009-03-19 23:25

the physics they develop (of course, we can not call it physics anymore) will not be the same as C-mechanic or Q-mechanic.
-------
话说得真满，把will改成may吧，这样你就无敌了。

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Reverie@2009-03-19 23:48

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My point is, if the thinking method of an imaginary civilization is completely different from us, the physics they develop (of course, we can not call it physics anymore) will not be the same as C-mechanic or Q-mechanic.

碳基生命和硅基生命是不同的?:D

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只猪走天涯@2009-03-19 23:49

哈哈，看南明各势力联合抗清，还真有点国共抗日的味道呢～～
不过也发扬了中国经久不衰的传统———窝里斗～～

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fallingpowerg4@2009-03-20 00:02

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最初由 eee904ha 发布

Ok, I get the idea now. Q-mechanic is the extension of C-mechanic. But the developing of those subjects requires an unique way of thinking (ie. reasoning, logic), and it is unique to the humans. In fact, the thinking method that leads to the development of physics is unique to the western civilization. You know, there is a reason why modern science was established by them rather then by the Chinese. My point is, if the thinking method of an imaginary civilization is completely different from us, the physics they develop (of course, we can not call it physics anymore) will not be the same as C-mechanic or Q-mechanic.

In other words, the universe is so huge that no one can see its whole picture. As humans, we develop science in order to explain the part of universe we can see.

How do you define a higher being that defines all physic laws? I'll take it as another civilization in OUR universe...since if you create a whole new universe, how physic laws differs renders the whole discussion useless. Let's assume, that they're from Pluto, we call them Plutons.

So, first thing first, the ways of define differs yet laws prevail.
In ancient earth, apple drops to the ground. Today apple still drops to the ground. Ancient human say "The land sucks the apple down", we say today that it is called "Gravity".

Now, apple, if it exists on Pluto, it's still going to drop to the ground cuz Pluto still have gravity. Pluton civilization doesn't just come out of nowhere, it took time to evolve. So, even if Plutons define this mechanic in a higher level now, at one point in their history, they still says "Gravity" or "Land sucks the apple down".

See? Higher beings are higher beings because they lived and evolved longer than we did, not because they're made superier.

Back to the physics. Now, Plutons may describe the universe using Ultra-advance laws that far surpassed Classic Mechanics or even Quatum Mechanics, I'm pretty sure that those things still exist in their old books written centuries back. They've used them in far past. They WERE useful. The steps they followed aren't too different from ours---unless they encountered even higher races from the other side of the galaxy---this also only helps them to just JUMP forward in evolution.

Westrn civilization now defines the way of defining the universe because they happened to be the one who builds up a superier world in the past couple of centuries.(1800~)

BUT! look at the days before, the medieval age.
Americans rules now, they don't exist back then.
Europeans too, they seem superier than Asians or rather say Chinese yet when Chinese built up the Dynasties they still live in damn caves.
Japan...well, when Chinese already have written culture and literature they were eating GRASS!

And of course not to mention that the first damn physic book is written by Chinese actually.

Western culture isn't really that different from ours, it is just that they caught the right time and the right chance.

Other than saying Western civilization is alien, I would say Issac Newton was alien, Einstein too. They were alien enough to push a civilization forward. Maybe not because they're smart but because they already knew. So your theory applies to individuals, not races.

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3323653zj@2009-03-20 00:11

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最初由 th!th 发布

从另一个角度来看清朝对待外国的态度可比明朝要保守多了
看明朝后期虽然火器发展的也不怎么样可人家愿意向外国学习
所以我就一直在想如果崇祯当年心胸能再开阔些把太子弄到南方去那么后来的南明抗清势力也不会为了各自的利益相互攻伐清朝南下的势头便很有可能因此而被遏止实际上当时攻打南明主要靠的都是汉人的部队（耿精忠尚可喜吴三桂）所以此时南明可以利诱汉人部队而让他们在进攻时不那么积极一旦时局稳定下来南北对峙之势已成再加上态度不明的汉人部队南明可保一时之安宁然后就像南宋那样积极向海外发展如此必然会与当时发展势头向上的欧洲诸国积极交流考虑到明末无论官方还是民间的有识之士对于西方的积极态度思想上的逐渐开放政治思想上的进步(已经出现限君权的思想) 南明的发展还是很有希望的
另我不认为明朝继续发展最多西班牙乃至俄帝
西班牙那是三产（特别是娱乐业）玩过头了没法展实业又不像荷兰玩的那么有水平后来就没落了
俄帝嘛他的改革是自上而下的他本人他本人确实对当时的欧洲的科学技术很感兴趣但也仅限于此毕竟他是独裁者所做的一切是不会威胁到他的统治地位对于欧洲的民主思想是绝对不会感兴趣的也不会引进的所以俄帝的改革是有限的所以俄帝有大地主但没有大资本家而明朝不同明朝末期君权已被极大的限制了民间言论学术研究的风气是很自由的这就为孕育新的政治思想提供了土壤

我可不想让那个因宦官，廷狱，党争著名的朝廷存活下去，那帮人不论文官集团还是皇帝还是宦官，没一个能真正办事的

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qianhe12@2009-03-20 00:45