最初由 沧海一粟 发布
参见伪满洲国和旺伪政权
不会有什么好下场
RP不足@2008-07-20 04:53
如果有个光明的未来Rockchan@2008-07-20 06:07
引用最初由 沧海一粟 发布
参见伪满洲国和旺伪政权
不会有什么好下场
引用最初由 心二 发布
那第1季的一堆伏线 不就成浮云了~~~
shazuna@2008-07-20 06:22
美国和澳大利亚的建国和印第安人和澳洲土著有任何关系么? 那是殖民地白人的国家Rockchan@2008-07-20 06:31
引用最初由 shazuna 发布
美国和澳大利亚的建国和印第安人和澳洲土著有任何关系么? 那是殖民地白人的国家
把11区人都杀光了, 然后布里塔尼亚人自己来个独立战争估计也会很好。
熊猫阿黑@2008-07-20 06:50
真开玩笑熊猫阿黑@2008-07-20 06:59
引用最初由 shazuna 发布
美国和澳大利亚的建国和印第安人和澳洲土著有任何关系么? 那是殖民地白人的国家
把11区人都杀光了, 然后布里塔尼亚人自己来个独立战争估计也会很好。
引用一、George Washington
乔治·华盛顿:用印第安人的人皮可以制作出优质长统靴
In 1779, George Washington instructed Major General John Sullivan to attack Iroquois people. Washington stated, lay waste all the settlements around...that the country may not be merely overrun, but destroyed. In the course of the carnage and annihilation of Indian people, Washington also instructed his general not listen to any overture of peace before the total ruin of their settlements is effected. (Stannard, David E. AMERICAN HOLOCAUST. New York: Oxford University Press, 1992. pp. 118-121.)
In 1783, Washington‘s anti-Indian sentiments were apparent in his comparisons of Indians with wolves: Both being beast of prey, tho‘ they differ in shape, he said. George Washington‘s policies of extermination were realized in his troops behaviors following a defeat. Troops would skin the bodies of Iroquois from the hips downward to make boot tops or leggings. Indians who survived the attacks later re-named the nation‘s first president as Town Destroyer. Approximately 28 of 30 Seneca towns had been destroyed within a five year period. (Ibid)
译文:
1779 年,乔治华盛顿指示John Sullivan少将攻打Iroquois人民时说:假如将“垃圾”(指印第安人)放到所有定居点附近,…..那么整个国家将不仅仅是泛滥成灾,而是被摧毁了。在***灭绝印第安人过程中,华盛顿还指示他的将军说:在所有印第安人居留地被有效摧毁前不要听取任何和平的建议”
在1783 年,华盛顿在把印第安人和狼的相互比较中,他这种反印第安人情绪遗漏无疑:“两者都是掠食的野兽,仅仅在形状上不同”,他说。华盛顿的灭绝政策在他的部队又一次击败了印第安人以后得以实施。军士们从Iroquois人的死尸上剥皮,“从臀部往下剥皮,这样可以制作出高的或可以并腿而长的长统靴来。”在那场袭击后辛存的印第安人将美国第一总统改名为“小城摧毁者”。大概30个Senca人的城镇中有28个在一个5年时间内被摧毁。
二、Thomas Jefferson 托马斯·杰弗逊(就是那位声称“天赋人权”----人人生而平等的民主领袖):美国必须灭绝印第安人
In 1807, Thomas Jefferson instructed his War Department that, should any Indians resist against America stealing Indian lands, the Indian resistance must be met with the hatchet. Jefferson continued, And...if ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, he wrote, we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi. Jefferson, the slave owner, continued, in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them. (Ibid)
In 1812, Jefferson said that American was obliged to push the backward Indians with the beasts of the forests into the Stony Mountains. One year later Jefferson continued anti-Indian statements by adding that America must pursue [the Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach. (Ibid)
译文:
1807 年,托马斯杰弗逊指示他的战争部门,说道,如果印第安人反抗美国人去窃取他们的土地,那么,印第安人的肯定会用“短柄斧头”来反抗,杰弗逊继续道,“如果我们约束自己去举斧迎向这些部落,那么在这些部落灭绝之前我们将不会安静地躺下,或者被驱赶出密西西比河以外”,杰弗逊,这个奴隶主,继续道: “在战争中,他们会杀死我们中的某些人,但我们会杀死他们全部。
在1812年,杰弗逊说美国人被迫赶退印第安人,“(就如)将森林野兽赶入乱石山”一年后,杰弗逊继续他的反印第安人言论,美国人必须“追求灭绝印第安人或者将他们驱赶到我们不去的地方”
三、Abraham Lincoln 亚伯拉罕·林肯:每十分钟***一名印第安人的美国总统
In 1862, President Abraham Lincoln ordered the execution, by hanging, of 38 Dakota Sioux prisoners in Mankato, Minnesota. Most of those executed were holy men or political leaders of their camps. None of them were responsible for committing the crimes they were accused of. Coined as the Largest Mass execution in U.S. History. (Brown, Dee. BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE. New York: Holt, Rinehart, Winston, 1970. pp. 59-61)
“It is my purpose to utterly exterminate the Sioux. They are to
e treated as maniacs or wild beasts”
《into the west》:
None of the Indians tried were given any semblance of a defense.Their trials lasted approximately 10 minutes each. All adult maleswere found guilty of murder and sentenced to death with the onlyevidence against them being they had been present during a warwhich they themselves had declared against the government.
译文:
1862年,林肯总统下令绞死了38个明尼苏达曼卡托地区的达可它人苏语部落的38个囚犯。这些被绞死的人大部分都是他们营地的神职人员和政治领袖。他们之中没有人犯过他们所被控告的罪行,这铸造了美国历史上最大规模的死刑.
“此战的目标是彻底灭绝苏部落。他们将被象野兽一样对待。”(林肯对即将出征剿杀印第安人的美国陆军中将John Pope交待他的作战目标)
被林肯下令***的39名印第安人,没有一个经过法庭辩论程序,每十分钟判一个,比希特勒更利索。尤其令人发指的是,该部落的所有成人都被定了死罪,唯一的证据是他们反对政府,而且战争发生时,他们在常
四、Theodore Roosevelt西奥多·罗斯福:只有死掉的印第安人才是好的
The fourth face you see on that Stony Mountain is America‘s first twentieth century president, alleged American hero, and Nobel peace prize recipient, Theodore Roosevelt. This Indian fighter firmly grasped the notion of Manifest Destiny saying that America‘s extermination of the Indians and thefts our their lands was ultimately beneficial as it was inevitable. Roosevelt once said, I don‘t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn‘t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. (Stannard, Op.Cit.)
译文:在乱石山上你看到的第四张脸孔是美国20世纪的第一任总统,所谓的美国英雄和诺贝尔和平奖得主,西奥多·罗斯福. 印第安斗士已经牢牢地掌握了他们命运的话语权:美国人对印第安人采取种族灭绝而且偷走了印第安人的土地。罗斯福说:“ 这是不可避免而且最终有利的,我不想走得太远去说只有死掉的印第安人才是好的,但是我相信10个好印第安人有9个是死了的,而且我也不愿意去仔细查询第 10个死亡的案情。
历史学家的评论:
The apathy displayed by these founding fathers symbolize the demoralization related to racial superiority. Scholars point toward this racial polarization as evidence of the existence of Eugenics.
Eugenics is a new term for an old phenomena which asserts that Indian people should be exterminated because they are an inferior race of people. Jefferson‘s suggestion to pursue the Indians to extermination fits well into the eugenistic vision. In David Stannard‘s study American Holocaust, he writes: had these same words been enunciated by a German leader in 1939, and directed at European Jews, they would be engraved in modern memory. Since they were uttered by one of America‘s founding fathers, however...they conveniently have become lost to most historians in their insistent celebration of Jefferson‘s wisdom and humanity. Roosevelt feared that American upper classes were being replaced by the unrestricted breeding of inferior racial stocks, the utterly shiftless, and the worthless (Ibid)
这些美国国父们所表现出来的冷漠象征了与种族优越感相联系的道德败坏。学者们也趋向这些种族分化作为优生论存在的证据。
优生论是一个对古老现象的新术语,它断言印第安人应该被灭绝因为他们是次等民族。主张“天赋人权”的杰弗逊认为追求印第安人灭绝很符合优生论。在 David Stannard的美国***历史研究中,他写道:“假如这些同样的词汇被德国领袖在1939年清晰地阐述并用于欧洲犹太人身上,那么它就会永远镌刻与人类的现代记忆中。但是既然他们是由一个美国国父发出的,那么,这些词汇在大部分历史学家坚持不懈地庆祝杰弗逊的智慧和人道中就很方便地失去了。”罗斯福害怕美国上流阶层正被“无限制繁衍的次等种族群体”、那些“完全的无能者”、那些“没有丝毫价值的人”所代替。
资料出处:《THE NATIVE AMERICAN》 (《土著美国人》)Theodore Roosevelt (1858–1919). Ranch Life and the Hunting-Trail.
edwardfr@2008-07-20 06:59
一切都是命啊...shazuna@2008-07-20 07:01
引用最初由 Rockchan 发布
你知不知道白人當日搶了印第安人和澳洲土著多少土地, 當中死了多少人? 你即使沒看到當地歷史, 如你有看舊電影也可以看到這些橋段. 美国和澳大利亚本身便是在壓制當地人, 什麼也搶了以後, 良心發現推行善政(但財產不歸還), 到了數十年後便被習慣了. 到今天也有老一輩原居民想取回公道(有時新聞也有他們的抗議行動), 但他們勢弱故沒人管他們罷了.
如照你所說美国和澳大利亚: "那是殖民地白人的国家", 那日本是否"那是殖民地布國人的国家"?
只要殖民地推行善政的時間夠長, 當數十年及百年, 最初面對侵略者的那批人差不多全死了後. 新一代在習慣現今生活時便不大有心反抗. 美國及澳大利亞原居民抗議無力的其中一原因便是他們的後代根本不想爭取以往的東西.
說起舊電影, 我小時候看時以為印第安人和土著是奸的. 到長大後看歷史才知奸的是白人. 印第安人和土著討厭及攻擊白人主角起因是白人搶了自己財產.
熊猫阿黑@2008-07-20 07:04
胜者为王,普世价值这东西是糊弄和平主义者的。shazuna@2008-07-20 07:06
所以就不要幻想什么特区日本hawkt@2008-07-20 07:14
你的例子不过是一部分地区的割据傀儡政权而已,给人一锅端的例子多的是,比如夏威夷,英伦四岛引用最初由 沧海一粟 发布
参见伪满洲国和旺伪政权
不会有什么好下场
熊猫阿黑@2008-07-20 07:15
插句嘴hawkt@2008-07-20 07:15
话是没错,不过没法一家横扫的时候,就只能巨头坐下来大家谈,这时候普世价值就很重要了,这时候道义的制高点要比军队有用多了引用最初由 熊猫阿黑 发布
胜者为王,普世价值这东西是糊弄和平主义者的。
熊猫阿黑@2008-07-20 07:19
引用最初由 hawkt 发布
话是没错,不过没法一家横扫的时候,就只能巨头坐下来大家谈,这时候普世价值就很重要了,这时候道义的制高点要比军队有用多了
half_angel@2008-07-20 07:20
记得以前看过一个访谈,制作组一开始就内定了尤菲的死亡,只不过还没想好该怎么死