『漫游』酷论坛>『动漫主题讨论区』>【原创】简述动漫中 ..
flyingsnow@2004-04-18 13:20
在暗黑破坏神游戏里面的大天使特里尔好象设定的是六对翅膀，只看到白色光带飘来飘去的。
fox_yu@2004-04-18 14:04
谢谢楼主及各位GG们，使我撒旦有了初步的认识，也使我对圣经充满兴趣。
研究ing.....
zijin1983@2004-04-18 16:07
猴子，我实验又失败了，没空跟你争论先，占个位置，晚上11点再来说。闪去发邮件查资料先。
zust@2004-04-18 17:28
只要动画好看就行,路西法是谁不重要
akafel@2004-04-18 21:23
我对天使学最感兴趣了....
zijin1983@2004-04-18 21:29
懒得翻译了，来来来，为了提高全民英语素质，我们提倡“学英语，由我们做起”的运动。猴子，嗯，英文阅读吧。
"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?
The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").
The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.
So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God'...."
嗯…… 不再无聊了…… 闪回去K书。
A502ALARM@2004-04-18 22:26
算了～～反正牵涉到这些的内容无不是众口铄金～各执一词～
我有我的看法～他有他的见解～前面帖子已经说过了巴比伦王我认为是和satan有所关联的～可能是satan的化身之一～～～联系就在于“淫妇”以及祭拜兽、龙的万民～～～～～～～～这个问题争下去也没多大意思～～·呵呵～出于美学考虑也希望lucifer就是satan～～～·那样才有故事好说啊～～·不过不论如何～～satan原是炽天使～～·后来堕落在地狱为王，并且和lilith产下了现在的子孙万代一事是不可否认的～～即使没有lucifer这个相对好听些的名字～～～satan本人的经历、传说还是没有改变～～～～
PS：貌似搞来搞去也只有我们两人在说～～·其他人兴趣不大的样子～～呵呵
不如以后有什么发现直接qq讨论好了～这里发帖子慢到死啊～·快要抓狂了
zijin1983@2004-04-18 22:34
你根据的是手头上的圣经，我查的资料根据的是希伯来语的圣经……
确实，这个问题，如果没见过最早的希伯来语的圣经、不懂希伯来语的话…… 车也扯不清的，我只是查查资料消遣一下而已嘛~~呵呵
8行，发贴有发帖的乐趣嘛，在qq上聊的话，我还提不起劲去查资料呢。呵呵。
focuslight@2004-04-19 00:54
没有看过圣经，只看了paradise lost。其实lucifer是不是satan对我来说是一点也不重要~
paradise lost里确实有称satan为lucifer，但中文翻译的是“晓星”，只是比喻satan的光芒。虽然故事里一直称这位魔王为satan，但并不代表他堕天前也叫这个名字。一种说法是魔王堕落后被天界除名，所以原来的名字无从考查（什么和什么呀）。其实satan一词意为“与神对抗者”应该是没有争议的。英文版的paradise lost对我来说已经不是考验E文水平的问题了，简直是文言文b 那个n世纪的英文呀……中文也不错了，可是诗歌被翻译后感觉总怪怪的。
故事里的satan给我的感觉好有魅力~！他的那句“我们自以为自由，其实都是神的奴隶”实在是cool~~~附带一提，故事里的神和神之子messiah（jesus在天堂的名字）真是xxxxx（还是不说亵渎神圣的话了b）。按我的理解，整个故事好像都是“祂”的阴谋||||
个人认为天禁里的神和堕天使们有那么一点点paradise lost的味道。不过那个messiah（E文版男主角的译名）虽然还是一样不讨人喜欢（个人认为），倒是和paradise lost半点也扯不上。
由贵香织理@2004-04-19 02:11
看了搂主和 zijin1983的反而更迷糊了@_@
解释太多太详细了
555555
我还是坚持原来的想法好了
A502ALARM@2004-04-19 08:15
弥尔顿的失乐园是早就如雷贯耳了～～·
不过一直谬找到～～残念～～～～～～～～
而且这玩意中文翻译很让人后怕～～～～～～～
国内的翻译就更加xx了～～·
focuslight@2004-04-19 12:24
英文原版的电子书还是找得到的，只不过自己是没有勇气去看b
deludeluborz@2004-04-19 23:05
引用
最初由 A502ALARM 发布
弥尔顿的失乐园是早就如雷贯耳了～～·
不过一直谬找到～～残念～～～～～～～～
而且这玩意中文翻译很让人后怕～～～～～～～
国内的翻译就更加xx了～～·
英文版到处都有，关键是看那个太花时间，曾经努力过，不过最终因为太花时间而放弃。
obviw@2004-04-21 02:20
如果单纯的以现有圣经的话, 其实因为版本的不同...圣经很多都被删节了...就拿启示录来说...普遍存在的KING JAMES版本里面关于红龙之前...有一段被删除了...我也是偶然的机会在一个黑人教会的圣经里面发现残缺的.....也在某种程度上说明了圣经的不可靠性..如果真的要算到鲁西法的存在的话...应该去旧约里面去找...而不是新约...呵呵...不过其实也没什么多大的意义了..
obviw@2004-04-21 02:22
引用
最初由 focuslight 发布
没有看过圣经，只看了paradise lost。其实lucifer是不是satan对我来说是一点也不重要~
paradise lost里确实有称satan为lucifer，但中文翻译的是“晓星”，只是比喻satan的光芒。虽然故事里一直称这位魔王为satan，但并不代表他堕天前也叫这个名字。一种说法是魔王堕落后被天界除名，所以原来的名字无从考查（什么和什么呀）。其实satan一词意为“与神对抗者”应该是没有争议的。英文版的paradise lost对我来说已经不是考验E文水平的问题了，简直是文言文b 那个n世纪的英文呀……中文也不错了，可是诗歌被翻译后感觉总怪怪的。
故事里的satan给我的感觉好有魅力~！他的那句“我们自以为自由，其实都是神的奴隶”实在是cool~~~附带一提，故事里的神和神之子messiah（jesus在天堂的名字）真是xxxxx（还是不说亵渎神圣的话了b）。按我的理解，整个故事好像都是“祂”的阴谋||||
个人认为天禁里的神和堕天使们有那么一点点paradise lost的味道。不过那个messiah（E文版男主角的译名）虽然还是一样不讨人喜欢（个人认为），倒是和paradise lost半点也扯不上。
E文版的译名应该是 Mutou setuna之类的..messiah只是救世主..里面人物对 他的尊称而已...
同时说起中文版圣经翻译的恐怖...呵呵..那个中文水平...呵呵...如果真的有上帝的话..怎么不仔细考虑一下自己的语言水平问题呢..
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